In addition, I'm both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I'm both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer. That's a unique characteristic; most people aren't like that.
What I mean is, it almost sounds like the email was written by a computer that lacked understanding of human emotion. The parts about "eye contact per minute," and how dating would save time because they both already go to the philharmonic, just to give two examples. And he apparently did a Google search to find out that women sometimes flirt by playing with their hair. And he apparently didn't understand that "It was nice to meet you," is simply a polite way to end an encounter with someone and has no other meaning.
I once received a similar missive. My missive was clearly motivated by nerves and a clear adoration of me. I both flattered and weirded out. Mostly, weirded out. Needless to say, we did not go out again.
I think there is a good likelihood that Jake is right. I think there is an equally good likelihood that this particular investment banker is a sociopathic and/or arrogant, entitled douche. (Note: not a generalization of New York investment bankers, but then I only know a dozen or so.)
Relatedly, what dating sites do ALOTT5MA singles use? In the spirit of KarenNM's "I always find my people here," I am trying to figure out my demographic.
There's a level of belligerence here which I'm not sure van be attributed to a disability, esp. in someone old enough to be dating a 32/33-year-old, but I'm willing to listen.
For not the first time, Jake has completely changed how I looked at something. (That said, I sort of liked the idea that this is the pool against which I'm competing...)
That's what a disability like Asperger's is -- among other things, an inability or impaired ability to understand social cues and social norms. It's not something that just goes away when you turn 30.
But what does that mean? That he shouldn't date unless he can date without having Asperger's? Maybe he should have run the email by a friend before sending it, but that assumes that (a) he has such a friend, and (b) he would recognize that it was questionable social behavior in need of vetting. Look, I don't know if this guy actually has Asperger's (obviously), and even if he does, anyone would be shocked and appalled to be on the receiving end of a letter like that. I just wish people would consider alternative explanations for very awkward social behavior and cut people a little slack. I mean, if it's even real, the email reads like the most obvious case of tv autism of all time. It's not funny.
Spacewoman, I totally get what you're saying. What I do think are worth commenting on are the social assumptions built in - which go to my comment above, and suggest principles derived from society at large - which are what I find problematic.
JDate for me, not because I necessarily have to date a Jewish guy, but the pool of guys on there seem to be a little more what I'm looking for in terms if education, job stability, etc. You'll find more guys on Match or OkCupid (in L.A. though, I really don't recommend OKC, which everyone I know has had bad experiences with, to the degree that we refer to it as OKDouchebag. Given other ThingThrowers use it, it may just be the prospects in L.A.)
Some men get away with a lot of harassing, disrespectful, even threatening behavior by claiming not to be good with social cues.
Perhaps the overly logical premise and resulting confusion can be attributed to Asperger's. (But if that were always the case, it would include all PUA adherents as well). There's obviously nothing inherently wrong with being confused by such things, beyond the unpleasantness of being confused. What this guy did next (and even if it's not real, things LIKE it are real. Many, many, many of them...), there's no excuse.
This is not "ha ha" mockery. This is "this is not OK." And it's really not, no matter why he believes A+B+C=relationship.
That he should tell someone he's dating, "By the way, I have Aspergers, so I don't always pick up on everything. Be patient with me, though, because on the whole I'm pretty great." Because he was unappealing enough on the date that the recipient decided to forward his email to friends rather than write back politely and say, "I'm sorry this didn't work out." Or burn the email. And, yeah, some women (and men) are mean enough to forward this around, but not (I would hope) if they recognized during the date that the guy had these issues.
I might suggest that benefits of explaining one's condition or the possibility of doing so politely and succinctly may qualify as a social cue that one with an autism-spectrum condition would be likely to overlook. I emphasize that I do not know. I would also emphasize that this guy's message could be consistent with a number of other issues, from a manic episode to a psychotic break to an entitled, introverted narcissism complicated by acute caffeine dependence and social isolation.
Having gone out with one or two possible Aspberger's (or "on the spectrum, none of your business"), I agree with Jake. But it takes a different turn, which Adlai points out.
And to be fair, I can only speak for myself when I say it's not "ha ha" mockery, but I'm hopeful that I'm not alone there. I just think it's important for harassment not to be quietly tolerated.
Next you'll be telling me that it isn't appropriate to laugh at mug shots of disorderly drunks in the police blotter, because alcohol abuse is a serious illness. Who can I laugh at, Mom? Who?!
I agree, for all but the last of the hypothetical causes I list.
As a recovering entitled, introverted narcissist (who has dialed back but not eliminated caffeine consumption and still prefers a degree of social isolation) I have to admit that being mean to us is sometimes the only way to call our disorder to our attention.
Squid, I know you're joking, but you should remember that you are laughing in the internet faces of a bunch of people who have just come forward and more or less said that they have loved ones on the spectrum. Maybe you are underestimating how personal this is to some of the people who have rung in above. If you want to rub that raw nerve, that's up to you, but in my book it's pretty shitty. If you want to make fun of people who are not wired to understand the social cues, maybe you should start paying attention to the social cues yourself.
I'm using OKCupid and actively avoiding JDate, with the realization that at some point I will cave and join JDate. But it'll probably be just to stop my mother from asking me why I'm not on JDate.
There's almost nothing not disturbing in this.
ReplyDeleteIn addition, I'm both a right-brain and left-brain man, given that I'm both an investment manager and a philosopher/writer. That's a unique characteristic; most people aren't like that.
ReplyDeleteThat's hilarious. The rest is disturbing.
So wait, I SHOULDN'T call myself a lawyer and a philosopher/writer in my online dating profile?
ReplyDeleteI kind of feel bad this guy is being mocked so widely, because this email screams Asperger's to me (from a layman's perspective, I hasten to add).
ReplyDeleteWhat I mean is, it almost sounds like the email was written by a computer that lacked understanding of human emotion. The parts about "eye contact per minute," and how dating would save time because they both already go to the philharmonic, just to give two examples. And he apparently did a Google search to find out that women sometimes flirt by playing with their hair. And he apparently didn't understand that "It was nice to meet you," is simply a polite way to end an encounter with someone and has no other meaning.
ReplyDeleteI had the same thought, for the same reasons.
ReplyDeleteI once received a similar missive. My missive was clearly motivated by nerves and a clear adoration of me. I both flattered and weirded out. Mostly, weirded out. Needless to say, we did not go out again.
ReplyDeleteVery much, Jake.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Jake. I wish people would stop circulating this and laughing at what is clearly a disability.
ReplyDeleteI think there is a good likelihood that Jake is right. I think there is an equally good likelihood that this particular investment banker is a sociopathic and/or arrogant, entitled douche. (Note: not a generalization of New York investment bankers, but then I only know a dozen or so.)
ReplyDeleteRelatedly, what dating sites do ALOTT5MA singles use? In the spirit of KarenNM's "I always find my people here," I am trying to figure out my demographic.
ReplyDeleteThere's a level of belligerence here which I'm not sure van be attributed to a disability, esp. in someone old enough to be dating a 32/33-year-old, but I'm willing to listen.
ReplyDeleteOkCupid for me.
ReplyDeleteFor not the first time, Jake has completely changed how I looked at something. (That said, I sort of liked the idea that this is the pool against which I'm competing...)
ReplyDelete"I did nothing wrong and therefore I am entitled to date you."
ReplyDeleteThat's what a disability like Asperger's is -- among other things, an inability or impaired ability to understand social cues and social norms. It's not something that just goes away when you turn 30.
ReplyDeleteI guess my question is the likelihood of someone in his 30s not recognizing that he's living with Asperger's.
ReplyDeleteOKCupid as well for me which is where I met my wife.
ReplyDeleteBut what does that mean? That he shouldn't date unless he can date without having Asperger's? Maybe he should have run the email by a friend before sending it, but that assumes that (a) he has such a friend, and (b) he would recognize that it was questionable social behavior in need of vetting. Look, I don't know if this guy actually has Asperger's (obviously), and even if he does, anyone would be shocked and appalled to be on the receiving end of a letter like that. I just wish people would consider alternative explanations for very awkward social behavior and cut people a little slack. I mean, if it's even real, the email reads like the most obvious case of tv autism of all time. It's not funny.
ReplyDeleteSpacewoman, I totally get what you're saying. What I do think are worth commenting on are the social assumptions built in - which go to my comment above, and suggest principles derived from society at large - which are what I find problematic.
ReplyDeleteJDate for me, not because I necessarily have to date a Jewish guy, but the pool of guys on there seem to be a little more what I'm looking for in terms if education, job stability, etc. You'll find more guys on Match or OkCupid (in L.A. though, I really don't recommend OKC, which everyone I know has had bad experiences with, to the degree that we refer to it as OKDouchebag. Given other ThingThrowers use it, it may just be the prospects in L.A.)
ReplyDeleteSome men get away with a lot of harassing, disrespectful, even threatening behavior by claiming not to be good with social cues.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the overly logical premise and resulting confusion can be attributed to Asperger's. (But if that were always the case, it would include all PUA adherents as well). There's obviously nothing inherently wrong with being confused by such things, beyond the unpleasantness of being confused. What this guy did next (and even if it's not real, things LIKE it are real. Many, many, many of them...), there's no excuse.
This is not "ha ha" mockery. This is "this is not OK." And it's really not, no matter why he believes A+B+C=relationship.
Fair points, Adlai and christy in nyc. My objection is to the "ha ha" mockery, of which there has been plenty on the interwebs.
ReplyDeleteThat he should tell someone he's dating, "By the way, I have Aspergers, so I don't always pick up on everything. Be patient with me, though, because on the whole I'm pretty great." Because he was unappealing enough on the date that the recipient decided to forward his email to friends rather than write back politely and say, "I'm sorry this didn't work out." Or burn the email. And, yeah, some women (and men) are mean enough to forward this around, but not (I would hope) if they recognized during the date that the guy had these issues.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I've had kind of the opposite experience: Though Jewish, I've really not liked the people I've met on JDate.
ReplyDeleteI might suggest that benefits of explaining one's condition or the possibility of doing so politely and succinctly may qualify as a social cue that one with an autism-spectrum condition would be likely to overlook. I emphasize that I do not know. I would also emphasize that this guy's message could be consistent with a number of other issues, from a manic episode to a psychotic break to an entitled, introverted narcissism complicated by acute caffeine dependence and social isolation.
ReplyDeleteGotta be a location thing...
ReplyDeleteI'm with Jake and Adlai.
ReplyDeleteHaving gone out with one or two possible Aspberger's (or "on the spectrum, none of your business"), I agree with Jake. But it takes a different turn, which Adlai points out.
Guest is me....
ReplyDeleteI'd go with the entitled.
ReplyDeleteAnd to be fair, I can only speak for myself when I say it's not "ha ha" mockery, but I'm hopeful that I'm not alone there. I just think it's important for harassment not to be quietly tolerated.
ReplyDeleteNext you'll be telling me that it isn't appropriate to laugh at mug shots of disorderly drunks in the police blotter, because alcohol abuse is a serious illness. Who can I laugh at, Mom? Who?!
ReplyDeleteExactly, which is why maybe we should stop being mean enough to forward it around.
ReplyDeleteI agree, for all but the last of the hypothetical causes I list.
ReplyDeleteAs a recovering entitled, introverted narcissist (who has dialed back but not eliminated caffeine consumption and still prefers a degree of social isolation) I have to admit that being mean to us is sometimes the only way to call our disorder to our attention.
Squid, I know you're joking, but you should remember that you are laughing in the internet faces of a bunch of people who have just come forward and more or less said that they have loved ones on the spectrum. Maybe you are underestimating how personal this is to some of the people who have rung in above. If you want to rub that raw nerve, that's up to you, but in my book it's pretty shitty. If you want to make fun of people who are not wired to understand the social cues, maybe you should start paying attention to the social cues yourself.
ReplyDeleteOut of curiosity how many cups of coffee have you had today?
ReplyDeleteZero, but maybe you should ask me how many cups of coffee I've thrown.
ReplyDeleteI was asking Squid, but, you know, more data is more data.
ReplyDeleteYeah. Guest. Me. ...compounding the irrelevance.
ReplyDeleteI'm using OKCupid and actively avoiding JDate, with the realization that at some point I will cave and join JDate. But it'll probably be just to stop my mother from asking me why I'm not on JDate.
ReplyDeleteThanks all. Too bad there's no ALOTT5MAtch.com
ReplyDeleteAbout two and half. Is that too much or too little?
ReplyDelete