Seriously, Oates is down at 33/1 with Don DeLillo and Bob Dylan? Below Roth? Below Alice Munro? (Both fine authors, nowhere near Oates level.) Also, this list has no Harlan Ellison on it, even on the long odds, and unlike Dylan he's actually written literature.
Joseph - What does "literature" mean? Seriously. Poets have won the Nobel Prize for Literature. What differentiation do you feel the need to make regarding a wildly prolific songwriter? Is Bob Dylan less a producer of literature than Wislawa Szymborska? This isn't like how some people don't think a pitcher should win the MVP because they have their own award. Is Bob Dylan not a writer? Then why belittle what he does?
I'm not belittling what Bob Dylan does to note that he is a songwriter, not a writer of literature (which if we're going to nail that to a pinboard I'd say in the case of the Nobels would involve novels, short stories, poetry, histories, etc). However, this does point out that the Nobels do have a weird lack of a category for music. Am I perhaps drawing an artifical line? Sure. But I think it has to come down somewhere.
Joseph - How about plays? Plenty of playwrights have wong Nobel Prizes and Adam already declared himself #TeamStoppard. When do we move over to writing for feature films? Is there a reason that shouldn't be eligible? I'm just sayin': Writing is writing. If you're the best at what you write, you should be allowed to be in the conversation if your greatness can be and has been acknowledged.
And I've said this before on Twitter: I'm not saying EVERY songwriter needs to be up for consideration, just like I'm not saying EVERY punter deserves consideration for the NFL Hall of Fame.
But I think Ray Guy belongs in the NFL Hall of Fame and I think Bob Dylan is amply deserving of a Nobel Prize for Literature...
I'm with you on the Harlan Ellison -- I wished they had gotten to Vonnegut -- or that they would get to Ursula LeGuin (at least she's on the list). That said, I would have sworn that Milan Kundera had won just because he's the sort of author that wins this thing.
Sure, plays are literature. Just like songs are not. Call it the Potter Stewart method if you like; I simply don't consider songwriting to be literature. (And for that matter, there would be plenty of people ahead of Dylan, like Sondheim.)
It's been one American in the past 30 years, they're not going South America twice in three years, they rarely go Asia or Africa. Given the statement awards over the past few years...I'm going with Amos Oz.
Three Americans in approximately the last 30 years, depending on if you want to count immigrants (as I do); Toni Morrison in 1983, Joseph Brodsky in 1987 and Czeslaw Milosz in 1980. Looking at the last winners, Britain is right out (there have been a lot recently, which is too bad for Ishiguro). Oz is a smart bet with recent years, right up there with Murakami, so I'm betting one of those or some other author from Asia.
I was not counting them for the following reason: did not remember them. In my mind, the last Americans to win were Morrison and Isaac Bashavis (sp?) Singer. Taking into account three Americans in 13 years in the fairly recent past...I'm still going with Oz.
Seriously, Oates is down at 33/1 with Don DeLillo and Bob Dylan? Below Roth? Below Alice Munro? (Both fine authors, nowhere near Oates level.) Also, this list has no Harlan Ellison on it, even on the long odds, and unlike Dylan he's actually written literature.
ReplyDeleteJoseph - What does "literature" mean? Seriously. Poets have won the Nobel Prize for Literature. What differentiation do you feel the need to make regarding a wildly prolific songwriter? Is Bob Dylan less a producer of literature than Wislawa Szymborska? This isn't like how some people don't think a pitcher should win the MVP because they have their own award. Is Bob Dylan not a writer? Then why belittle what he does?
ReplyDelete-Daniel
No odds at all on E.L. James? I call "Shennanigans" on that...
ReplyDelete-Daniel
If you're this outraged about Oates, I can't imagine how livid you must be about Hall.
ReplyDeleteAtwood! Atwood! Atwood!
ReplyDelete(And I'm not even Canadian)
I'm not belittling what Bob Dylan does to note that he is a songwriter, not a writer of literature (which if we're going to nail that to a pinboard I'd say in the case of the Nobels would involve novels, short stories, poetry, histories, etc). However, this does point out that the Nobels do have a weird lack of a category for music. Am I perhaps drawing an artifical line? Sure. But I think it has to come down somewhere.
ReplyDeleteHeh, for a second I thought you were going for a much different joke and talking about P.D. James. Or hell, even T.D. Jakes.
ReplyDeleteJoseph - How about plays? Plenty of playwrights have wong Nobel Prizes and Adam already declared himself #TeamStoppard. When do we move over to writing for feature films? Is there a reason that shouldn't be eligible? I'm just sayin': Writing is writing. If you're the best at what you write, you should be allowed to be in the conversation if your greatness can be and has been acknowledged.
ReplyDeleteAnd I've said this before on Twitter: I'm not saying EVERY songwriter needs to be up for consideration, just like I'm not saying EVERY punter deserves consideration for the NFL Hall of Fame.
But I think Ray Guy belongs in the NFL Hall of Fame and I think Bob Dylan is amply deserving of a Nobel Prize for Literature...
-Daniel
I'm with you on the Harlan Ellison -- I wished they had gotten to Vonnegut -- or that they would get to Ursula LeGuin (at least she's on the list). That said, I would have sworn that Milan Kundera had won just because he's the sort of author that wins this thing.
ReplyDeleteSure, plays are literature. Just like songs are not. Call it the Potter Stewart method if you like; I simply don't consider songwriting to be literature. (And for that matter, there would be plenty of people ahead of Dylan, like Sondheim.)
ReplyDeleteTotally with you on LeGuin
ReplyDeleteDaniel Kahneman writes literature? As in Daniel Kahneman, the Nobel-Prize-winning economist? I had no idea.
ReplyDeleteHow long have they been doing this for, and have they had the actual winner on their odds chart for many of the past N years?
ReplyDeleteIt's been one American in the past 30 years, they're not going South America twice in three years, they rarely go Asia or Africa. Given the statement awards over the past few years...I'm going with Amos Oz.
ReplyDeleteThree Americans in approximately the last 30 years, depending on if you want to count immigrants (as I do); Toni Morrison in 1983, Joseph Brodsky in 1987 and Czeslaw Milosz in 1980. Looking at the last winners, Britain is right out (there have been a lot recently, which is too bad for Ishiguro). Oz is a smart bet with recent years, right up there with Murakami, so I'm betting one of those or some other author from Asia.
ReplyDeleteI was not counting them for the following reason: did not remember them. In my mind, the last Americans to win were Morrison and Isaac Bashavis (sp?) Singer. Taking into account three Americans in 13 years in the fairly recent past...I'm still going with Oz.
ReplyDeleteMight as well include Singer, since he won only two years earler than Milosz in 1978.
ReplyDeleteJoining Adam on Team Stoppard.
ReplyDelete