Monday, March 19, 2012

25 OR 6 TO INDUCT: Spurred by that last post about the city of Chicago, the band Chicago has been eligible for Rock Hall induction for almost 20 years now, but have never even made the ballot. I am far from a huge fan, so can't Keltnerize them, but just off stats, they'd seem to have a good case--touring and recording pretty regularly for 45 years now (admittedly with a good deal of variation in the lineup, though four members have been with the band throughout), and the discography gives us 18 Platinum albums, another 4 Gold albums, 20 Top 10 singles (3 of which went to #1), a bunch of which are (admittedly cheesy) standards--"Hard To Say I'm Sorry," "You're The Inspiration," and "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?" Admittedly, they're cornball (especially the 80s output), and the Hall hasn't been that kind to jazz rock noodling, but that statistical case is really solid.

37 comments:

  1. Watts1:57 PM

    <span>My watch tells me that they'll be inducted at 25 or 6 to 4.</span>

    Or was it my bookie?

    ReplyDelete
  2. KCosmo&#39;s neighbor2:05 PM

    My husband LOVES them. We walked into our wedding reception to a Chicago song (When I'm with you-oo-oo...). Fortunately, our band did them justice. It was nice.... He loves their arrangements (he plays the piano, so he has much more to say about all of this than I do).

    ReplyDelete
  3. Squid2:24 PM

    The horn section alone would get 'em my vote.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anonymous2:46 PM

    There are a few holes from the 70s that they need to fill. I would say that Chicago is up there with Rush and ELO (or at least Jeff Lynne).

    --bd

    ReplyDelete
  5. Andrew3:01 PM

    I'd put them a notch or two below ELO/Jeff Lynne, and not really sure that they should be in a small hall version of the RRHOF, but after having "You're the Inspiration" stuck in my head all of last weekend with it's damn effective key change, there is definitely much good stuff in their catalog. But the only truly great song of theirs that I'm familiar with is 25 or 6 to 4.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Watts3:10 PM

    From All Music: "According to Billboard chart statistics, Chicago is second only to the Beach Boys as the most successful American rock band of all time, in terms of both albums and singles. Judged by album sales, as certified by the R.I.A.A., the band does not rank quite so high, but it is still among the Top Ten best-selling U.S. groups ever."

    ReplyDelete
  7. isaac_spaceman3:42 PM

    Chicago's case is essentially exactly the same as Abba's, only worse.  If the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is about popularity and nothing else, they should get in.  If quality means anything at all, and I mean anything at all, they should not get in. 

    ReplyDelete
  8. Jordan4:23 PM

    18 sounds like a lot, especially for a band from whom I can only name two songs.  Juiced era?  Also, it's a lot less impressive as their main reason for induction when you look at it as only half their albums.  Or that they've consistantly released albums every couple years throughout their career, but haven't had one in the top 40 in 25 years.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Joseph J. Finn5:39 PM

    As a Chicagoan, I think I could name at least 10 Chicago and Chicago-area bands that would have to go in first.  Decent, but hardly in the discussion.

    (And really damning to me, I looked at all three song titles above and have no idea how they go.)

    ReplyDelete
  10. Watts5:44 PM

    Because you weren't a pre-teen girl in the 80s, at least for the first two.  I could do really well on a lyrics quiz. Especially if "Next Time I Fall" - Peter Cetera's duet with Amy Grant - is the extra credit question.

    And don't forget "If You Leave Me Now" or "Saturday in the Park" or "Stay the Night" and its CHOICE video:
    http://www.youtube.com/v/lyZ4w_OyZx4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="170" height="140

    ReplyDelete
  11. isaac_spaceman5:47 PM

    According to Isaac Spaceman chart specifics, Chicago is second only to Starship as the most successful American rock band of all time, in terms of wanting to punch their singer in the face for music-related reasons.  Judged by wanting to punch the singer in the face for all reasons (musical and otherwise), the band does not rank quite so high, but it is still pretty face-punchable. 

    ReplyDelete
  12. Richard Cobeen7:00 PM

    Abba's case is a great deal better than Chicago's.  Abba's incredibly influential musically and is admired by many artists and critics. There are movies whose entire feel is created by their music and, of course, a wildly popular musical play/movie that is based on their songs. Chicago has sold a bunch of records with an amazing absence of pop culture impact. Elvis Costello never made an album trying to sound like Chicago.

    ReplyDelete
  13. I have decided I'm going to try and use "face-punchable" as an adjective more frequently.

    ReplyDelete
  14. isaac_spaceman7:37 PM

    To be fair, it's really just prominent in my head because of the joke on 30 Rock last week about why the writers can't go outside on St. Patrick's day. 

    ReplyDelete
  15. Jordan7:43 PM

    Now is it your belief that Elvis Costello isn't cool?

    ReplyDelete
  16. isaac_spaceman8:11 PM

    Do we have to do this again?  Fine.  Abba certainly is "admired by many artists and critics."  Abba also is "reviled by many artists and critics."  Why?  Because many artists and critics disagree with many other artists and critics.  For example, Armond White and LeRoy Nieman love Abba.  Lester Bangs and Richard Hell despise Abba.  But that's not fair.  Michiko Kakutani and Kurt Cobain love Abba, and Richard Ruskin and Nick Lachey despise Abba.  Who is right?  I am.  I suspect you disagree. 

    There are movies whose entire feel is created by Abba's music.  Which movies are these?  The Abba Movie, a concert movie about Abba.  And Mamma Mia!, which -- do I actually have to type this?  I won't.  And then, okay, a lot of other movies have used Abba songs.  How?  Usually as kitsch.  Ha, ha, our characters are stupid/embarrassing/incapable of being embarrassed!  Cue Dancing Queen!  To which Chicago responds with Electra Glide in Blue (a movie starring the members of Chicago), and their likely appearances in possibly hundreds or thousands of movies that I can't name because you can't just Google "chicago movie soundtrack" and get anything but garbage.  Also, not exactly Chicago, but in the "entire feel is created" department, may I please introduce you to Mister Peter Cetera and his dojo, Daniel-San?  SWEEP THE LEG! (Different movie, I know). 

    Finally, "Elvis Costello never made an album trying to sound like Chicago."  I will co-sign on Elvis Costello love.  But Elvis Costello will try to sound like anything.  He has done a country album, some soul-influenced songs, a Burt Bacharach collaboration, an ersatz-classical album and some chamber music, and some jazz and kind-fusion-jazz.  He accidentally did an album with Huey Lewis's backup band.  The man's tastes are catholic.  Elvis Costello has tried to sound like you?  Congratulations, that means you are a sound. 

    And having said all that, I remind you:  I did say that Abba's case was better. 

    ReplyDelete
  17. isaac_spaceman8:18 PM

    Why did I say Richard Ruskin?  I meant John Ruskin.  Duh. 

    ReplyDelete
  18. Richard Cobeen8:57 PM

    Geez, Isaac, take it easy, no need to get so huffy.  I'm no Abba fan. You did say their case was better, but you also said it was similar.  I was simply saying that it was not a good comparison. Chicago has virtually no artists or critics that vouch for them, as opposed to Abba, so they don't compare in the main way you were trying, which is that they were both only about popularity. Abba is rather obviously about more than popularity.

    The couple of movies I can think of off the top of my head are The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert and Muriel's Wedding. Mamma Mia is an abomination, but its popularity, and the love that some people have for it, has no corresponding component in the world of Chicago.

    And while Costello's genre hopping is obvious, he goes to genres he loves, not just anything. His tastes may be catholic, but they are tastes. I haven't had a use for him in 20 years, but Armed Forces sounds the way it does because of the music that was blasting in their tour bus in 1978, which was mainly Abba and Berlin Bowie. I threw Costello out there as the first example I can think of an artist being influenced by Abba, of ehich there are many.  Chicago...not so much.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anonymous9:26 PM

    I thought they were solid until they stopped using Roman numerals to title their albums. At that point they becoming something other than what I wanted them to be.

    ReplyDelete
  20. "<span>Elvis Costello has tried to sound like you? Congratulations, that means you are a sound"</span>

    I would watch this reality series

    ReplyDelete
  21. isaac_spaceman10:29 PM

    Of course there are critics who vouch for Abba.  I'm sure if you look hard enough, there are esteemed critics who will vouch for Chicago.  Just like if you look hard enough, you'll find a lot of bands in the late 1970s and early 1980s with arena ambitions and sublimated jazz pretensions who were influenced by Chicago.  But who cares?  Abba then was a supremely packaged product, a musical cotton candy spun out in cotton candy colors and consumed gluttonously by an audience that lacked sufficient parental supervision, resulting in severe and lasting musical nausea.  Every one of us ate cotton candy, and you can't really anybody for eating too much of it when they were kids.  But some grown people consume consume cotton candy into their adulthood, because it is kitsch, or because they are nostalgists.   Some grown people will only eat cotton candy when they're at the fair, because that's when you're supposed to eat cotton candy.  And some grown people will just eat any damn thing that is there.  I might eat a little bit of cotton candy now and then, and if I see a grown person eating cotton candy, I don't think twice about it.  But if somebody tells me, "I eat cotton candy at least once every week, because I fucking love cotton candy -- it is one of my ten favorite things to eat," I'm going to say that that says more about the person than it says about cotton candy. 

    ReplyDelete
  22. Marsha10:37 PM

    Yes, that. Chicago 17. 1984 was a big year for me in paying-attention-to-top-40-dom. This is one of the first albums I bought with my own money. I played it over and over and over again. I don't much care if they (or anyone) get into the HOF, but I had that album memorized, and bought a lot more of their cassettes because I loved Chicago 17 so much.

    And no matter what Isaac thinks of Chicago, I'm guessing even he would agree that they were a BIG step up from my love for Shaun Cassidy and Air Supply.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Chuck9:41 AM

    I don't care much for Chicago but they strike me as Hall of Famers.  Wherther the horn arrangements have artisitc merit is obviously subject to debate.  Their cheesy ballad quotient cannot be denied, though.
    I second the idea that some of Steve Nieve's keyboard playing on early Costello albums sounds like that on songs like ABBA's Dancing Queen. I'm thinking songs like King Horse and perhaps most of all Oliver's Army.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Genevieve9:59 AM

    Also Muriel's Wedding, which is quite a good movie.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Jim Bell11:19 AM

    I vote to induct.  Their horniness is awesome.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Gleemonex11:54 AM

    Watts, I feel like you and me could be friends ... ;-) 

    ReplyDelete
  27. Chicago was my very first concert* the summer after I graduated from high school. And, um, I like that "Saturday in the Park" song that played in the background of an episode of the original Beverly Hills 90210. So, yeah. That's all I have to contribute to this discussion.

    *I wanted to see REM or the HORDE Festival, but my friends voted for Chicago. I've since made new friends.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Benner5:44 PM

    it would probably be better than wathcing Elvis Costello interview himself.  That said, Lou Reed was alarmingly polite on that particular episode.

    Abba has absolutely perfect pop songs, whereas Chicago is just shit.  (Their dirty secret is they haven't the first clue what jazz even is.)  I wouldn't induct either, not while Gram Parsons is not in.  

    ReplyDelete
  29. StvMg2:46 PM

    Late to the party, but I'm guessing Chicago actually might have been a more realistic contender if they had faded to obscurity in the early 1980s rather than remaining popular through much of the decade. While I admit to considering 80s-era Chicago a guility pleasure because I loved them when I was in high school, I have to think the relative schmaltz of the Cetera era (Hard Habit to Break, You're the Inspiration) and the post-Cetera era (Will You Still Love Me, Look Away) pretty much ended any shot they had at induction. If nobody ever hears those songs and we think of Chicago only for the 70s stuff, maybe they get a shot.

    ReplyDelete
  30. StvMg2:46 PM

    Late to the party, but I'm guessing Chicago actually might have been a more realistic contender if they had faded to obscurity in the early 1980s rather than remaining popular through much of the decade. While I admit to considering 80s-era Chicago a guility pleasure because I loved them when I was in high school, I have to think the relative schmaltz of the Cetera era (Hard Habit to Break, You're the Inspiration) and the post-Cetera era (Will You Still Love Me, Look Away) pretty much ended any shot they had at induction. If nobody ever hears those songs and we think of Chicago only for the 70s stuff, maybe they get a shot.

    ReplyDelete
  31. StvMg2:46 PM

    Late to the party, but I'm guessing Chicago actually might have been a more realistic contender if they had faded to obscurity in the early 1980s rather than remaining popular through much of the decade. While I admit to considering 80s-era Chicago a guility pleasure because I loved them when I was in high school, I have to think the relative schmaltz of the Cetera era (Hard Habit to Break, You're the Inspiration) and the post-Cetera era (Will You Still Love Me, Look Away) pretty much ended any shot they had at induction. If nobody ever hears those songs and we think of Chicago only for the 70s stuff, maybe they get a shot.

    ReplyDelete
  32. StvMg2:47 PM

    Late to the party, but I'm guessing Chicago actually might have been a more realistic contender if they had faded to obscurity in the early 1980s rather than remaining popular through much of the decade. While I admit to considering 80s-era Chicago a guility pleasure because I loved them when I was in high school, I have to think the relative schmaltz of the Cetera era (Hard Habit to Break, You're the Inspiration) and the post-Cetera era (Will You Still Love Me, Look Away) pretty much ended any shot they had at induction. If nobody ever hears those songs and we think of Chicago only for the 70s stuff, maybe they get a shot.

    ReplyDelete
  33. StvMg2:47 PM

    Late to the party, but I'm guessing Chicago actually might have been a more realistic contender if they had faded to obscurity in the early 1980s rather than remaining popular through much of the decade. While I admit to considering 80s-era Chicago a guility pleasure because I loved them when I was in high school, I have to think the relative schmaltz of the Cetera era (Hard Habit to Break, You're the Inspiration) and the post-Cetera era (Will You Still Love Me, Look Away) pretty much ended any shot they had at induction. If nobody ever hears those songs and we think of Chicago only for the 70s stuff, maybe they get a shot.

    ReplyDelete
  34. StvMg2:48 PM

    Late to the party, but I'm guessing Chicago actually might have been a more realistic contender if they had faded to obscurity in the early 1980s rather than remaining popular through much of the decade. While I admit to considering 80s-era Chicago a guility pleasure because I loved them when I was in high school, I have to think the relative schmaltz of the Cetera era (Hard Habit to Break, You're the Inspiration) and the post-Cetera era (Will You Still Love Me, Look Away) pretty much ended any shot they had at induction. If nobody ever hears those songs and we think of Chicago only for the 70s stuff, maybe they get a shot.

    ReplyDelete
  35. StvMg2:48 PM

    Late to the party, but I'm guessing Chicago actually might have been a more realistic contender if they had faded to obscurity in the early 1980s rather than remaining popular through much of the decade. While I admit to considering 80s-era Chicago a guility pleasure because I loved them when I was in high school, I have to think the relative schmaltz of the Cetera era (Hard Habit to Break, You're the Inspiration) and the post-Cetera era (Will You Still Love Me, Look Away) pretty much ended any shot they had at induction. If nobody ever hears those songs and we think of Chicago only for the 70s stuff, maybe they get a shot.

    ReplyDelete
  36. StvMg2:49 PM

    Late to the party, but I'm guessing Chicago actually might have been a more realistic contender if they had faded to obscurity in the early 1980s rather than remaining popular through much of the decade. While I admit to considering 80s-era Chicago a guility pleasure because I loved them when I was in high school, I have to think the relative schmaltz of the Cetera era (Hard Habit to Break, You're the Inspiration) and the post-Cetera era (Will You Still Love Me, Look Away) pretty much ended any shot they had at induction. If nobody ever hears those songs and we think of Chicago only for the 70s stuff, maybe they get a shot.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Anonymous5:33 PM

    So, the answer would be; although, it is not necessary
    to avail their services, likelihood of winning the race would increase if their services
    are availed. There are two types of hospitality available:
    1 - Royal Ascot - Platinum Suite in The Imperial Courtyard 2 -
    Royal Ascot - Carriages Restaurant Hospitality.
    Trainers will often race their horse to get them to "tighten up" This just means that the trainer want to see if his horse is ready for his next
    big race. A significant portion of the HBO series 'Luck' was filmed at various locations
    around Santa Anita Park, including the grandstands, the
    barn area, training track, clubhouse and others.
    Fast action sports like formula auto racing, horse racing,
    power boat competitions or team blitz action as experienced in ice
    hockey, basketball and other indoor court sports require careful consideration of lens apertures used
    for taking pictures of sports. Most of them are biography-style books about great racehorses, and a
    full half of the list are novels.

    my website :: the midas method

    ReplyDelete