I grew up in farm country in the west (that red leaning portion east of the Cascades in Washington and Oregon and creeping into Idaho), and this has resulted in a great deal of confusion in the levels of formalness of dress now that I live in the Midwest and am engaged to someone with a fancy job and fancy friends. Because where I come from, there are clothes you will wear doing chores and clothes you will wear doing everything else. Honestly that is pretty much ok and not too many people judge (and I think they are all from somewhere much farther east). That appears to vastly not be the case here. And now I see it is true for boys too!
You can also wear a button-down shirt with a loosely-knotted tie and a blazer and a Beatle haircut (remember when we called them Beatle cuts and not Bieber's old haircut?) if you are an annoying prep school student.
Also, I understand from the catalogs that nowadays if you wear a button-down shirt you are supposed to roll back the sleeves until they are above your elbows. When I was learning to roll sleeves, they pretty much came off the wrists to expose various lengths of forearm, but I never really tried to show my elbows. Since I first started seeing this more daring cuff roll maybe ten years ago, I've tried it a few times, and it works really well unless you think that blood flow to my extremities is a good thing. I have a very handsome and delicate turn of an elbow, but trying to show it off in this way is counterproductive because it turns my elbows blue and swollen. So what I am saying is that I cannot roll my sleeves back beyond my elbows. This is likely because of my extraordinarily masculine biceps, which would probably frighten you if you looked at them without some kind of filter.
Never with a suit; never with a tie. I also wouldn't wear one with a blazer, though it's not "wrong." I like button down shirts solo or with a sweater. I think C.J. Rehnquist once chastised an attorney for wearing a button down shirt to oral argument. Even though the lawyer was in error, the greater sin is pointing this out. tacky.
as for rolling up the sleeves, which I do all the time except when wearing french cuffs, over the elbow is too informal.
also, what's with tie clips all of a sudden? your tie is attached to your neck by a fairly strong knot. It's not going anyplace. If you're concerned about wind or what not, button the jacket.
Oh, I love a good tie clip/bar. That's a little bit of men's fashion that dropped out of fashion and looked like it might be making a comeback. I was THRILLED to see Ryan Seacrest wearing a tie bar on American Idol last season.
Bugger off, Rehnquist. As long as the dress is sufficiently formal, there's no place for judges to be criticizing counsel for wearing something in particular.
That said, I love that the US Solicitor General still wears morning dress to appear before the Supremes and I was always disappointed that Justice Kagan never had an outfit made for herself (she was the first female US Solicitor General, right?) I'm happy to see Neal Katyal seems to be keeping up the tradition.
Heather K - I grew up in the Tri-Cities, WA and agree with your assessment, of "work clothes" and "clothes" - after moving to big bad Seattle, it took me a long time for "work clothes" to conjure up business casual dress instead of torn up jeans and flannel...
I assume this woman would object (excuse me, strenuously object!) to my large collection of custom-made Aloha shirts, which I wear -- all but daily -- between April and October.
There's an exception to the "never with a suit" rule that has something to do with seersucker, but that's not my area of expertise.
ReplyDeleteI grew up in farm country in the west (that red leaning portion east of the Cascades in Washington and Oregon and creeping into Idaho), and this has resulted in a great deal of confusion in the levels of formalness of dress now that I live in the Midwest and am engaged to someone with a fancy job and fancy friends. Because where I come from, there are clothes you will wear doing chores and clothes you will wear doing everything else. Honestly that is pretty much ok and not too many people judge (and I think they are all from somewhere much farther east). That appears to vastly not be the case here. And now I see it is true for boys too!
ReplyDeleteYou can also wear a button-down shirt with a loosely-knotted tie and a blazer and a Beatle haircut (remember when we called them Beatle cuts and not Bieber's old haircut?) if you are an annoying prep school student.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I understand from the catalogs that nowadays if you wear a button-down shirt you are supposed to roll back the sleeves until they are above your elbows. When I was learning to roll sleeves, they pretty much came off the wrists to expose various lengths of forearm, but I never really tried to show my elbows. Since I first started seeing this more daring cuff roll maybe ten years ago, I've tried it a few times, and it works really well unless you think that blood flow to my extremities is a good thing. I have a very handsome and delicate turn of an elbow, but trying to show it off in this way is counterproductive because it turns my elbows blue and swollen. So what I am saying is that I cannot roll my sleeves back beyond my elbows. This is likely because of my extraordinarily masculine biceps, which would probably frighten you if you looked at them without some kind of filter.
ReplyDeleteWhenever I damn well feel like it, that's when I'll wear them.
ReplyDeleteNever with a suit; never with a tie. I also wouldn't wear one with a blazer, though it's not "wrong." I like button down shirts solo or with a sweater. I think C.J. Rehnquist once chastised an attorney for wearing a button down shirt to oral argument. Even though the lawyer was in error, the greater sin is pointing this out. tacky.
ReplyDeleteas for rolling up the sleeves, which I do all the time except when wearing french cuffs, over the elbow is too informal.
also, what's with tie clips all of a sudden? your tie is attached to your neck by a fairly strong knot. It's not going anyplace. If you're concerned about wind or what not, button the jacket.
All this is making me wish I lived in some sort of place where t-shirts aren't the norm.
ReplyDeleteOh, I love a good tie clip/bar. That's a little bit of men's fashion that dropped out of fashion and looked like it might be making a comeback. I was THRILLED to see Ryan Seacrest wearing a tie bar on American Idol last season.
ReplyDeleteBugger off, Rehnquist. As long as the dress is sufficiently formal, there's no place for judges to be criticizing counsel for wearing something in particular.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I love that the US Solicitor General still wears morning dress to appear before the Supremes and I was always disappointed that Justice Kagan never had an outfit made for herself (she was the first female US Solicitor General, right?) I'm happy to see Neal Katyal seems to be keeping up the tradition.
Heather K - I grew up in the Tri-Cities, WA and agree with your assessment, of "work clothes" and "clothes" - after moving to big bad Seattle, it took me a long time for "work clothes" to conjure up business casual dress instead of torn up jeans and flannel...
ReplyDeleteDAWN I AM FROM PASCO!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteSeriously this is freaking me out.
ReplyDeleteI assume this woman would object (excuse me, strenuously object!) to my large collection of custom-made Aloha shirts, which I wear -- all but daily -- between April and October.
ReplyDelete