OH MY PAPA: South Philly native Eddie Fisher passed away yesterday, and it brings up a topic I've droned on about in the past -- what does it take to kill a career these days? For Fisher, of course, it was leaving his wife Debbie Reynolds -- where they were seen as America's sweethearts -- to shack up with that grieving hussy Elizabeth Taylor. The scandal wrecked his career as a crooner, though it obviously gave his daughter Carrie a lot of material going forward.
In 2003, as you may recall, Billy Crudup left his longterm girlfriend Mary-Louise Parker -- who was seven months pregnant at the time -- to take up with Claire Danes. Career consequences? None. And neither Brad Pitt nor Angelina Jolie seemed to have been hurt in the slightest, though Jennifer Aniston -- like Debbie Reynolds decades earlier -- seems to be doing fine centering her celebrity around her victimhood (see #3).
No, to have your career die in Hollywood for non-criminal reasons, it looks like anti-Semitism (Gibson) or flagrant overall weirdness (Cruise) are what you need -- but even in Cruise's case, neither Valkyrie nor Knight & Day were total bombs and both did well overseas. But infidelity? In Hollywood, it doesn't seem to be an issue, which I suppose begs the question of why over in the sports world Tiger Woods has generated so much genuine resentment and outrage. Is it the quantity/quality? The way we found out? Was America just bored? Why did Tiger take the hit which so many others did not?
My theory is that while athletes are still seen as heroes ('sports heroes') they are held to the higher moral standard that can be ascribed to that name (think more noble than messy greek myth) whereas actors are no longer seen as heroic figures.
ReplyDeleteI was going to suggest Meg Ryan as an example of infidelity damaging a career, but (a) apparently her first post-Proof of Life film, Kate and Leopold, was something of a hit, and (b) Ryan claims Dennis Quaid wasn't squeaky clean during their marriage either. But my recollection is that her affair with Crowe (or maybe more accurately, news of her affair with Crowe) was blamed -- rightly or wrongly -- for hurting PoL at the box office. In any case, Ryan's been in some pretty bad movies since; whether that's because she's seen as box office poison, just makes bad choices, or has fallen victim to Hollywood's blind spot for women-of-a-certain-age is not clear.
ReplyDeleteWas Eddie Fisher the first really big star to get a really scandalous, public divorce? Often times it's merely the first guy who does something bad that take the hit (certainly this is the case in politics - Gary Hart (adultery), Judge Ginsburg (marijunana), etc).
ReplyDeleteAlso, Premorse!
I'd say the Meg Ryan thing is more a function of her age (no, she's not that old, but her image depended on playing a certain young persona) and the fact that the kind of movies that were her bread-and-butter are now being made, badly, starring people like Jennifer Aniston.
ReplyDeleteAs for Mary-Louise Parker, she's not as associated with the Crudup thing because she never publicly played the victim. Which makes me admire her all the more, although it might have been different if her face sold the magazines that others do.
The Fisher divorce may have been the first big scandal, and it wasn't helped by the fact that it was with Taylor. I'd have to look it up, but didn't Ingrid Bergman's child with Rossellini predate this? It was bigger and more devastating to Bergman's career, at least in the short run.
Also, Tiger's public image was always pretty squeaky clean. If another golfer (say, John Daly) or many other pro athletes had been caught in a similar situation, I don't think it'd be as much of a scandal.
ReplyDeleteBergman-Rosselini was a decade earlier, and she did become pregnant while married to someone else (or, alternatively, "he got a married woman pregnant.") Directors get a wider moral berth; they're off screen.
ReplyDeleteMeg Ryan was hitting the DA phase of her career anyway. Then she made In The Cut.
I'm wondering if the cycle of drugs-arrest-rehab-relapse is still a career killer these days. We all know that Robert Downey Jr. came back from it, and Mickey Rourke is having a comeback. Can Lindsey Lohan do the same? I'm not sure. At this point, she would need to disappear from the tabloids - and keep clean - for at least a year before I think anyone would be willing to see her face again. (Or is that just me?)
ReplyDeleteTiger's scandal got massive attention for the sheer numbers (and don't tell me for some, part of that isn't envy) and for the tawdriness of it, as well as the fact that it started with the car accident and concerns about possible injury. It seems a person having an affair with one person, and/or leaving one committed relationship for another, doesn't get as much notice these days.
ReplyDeleteSue, I'm not sure it's a career killer, and it's certainly not for men. But I can't think offhand of other women who have recovered in that way (Drew Barrymore? but she was never in legal trouble); perhaps it's also recovering from being a media punchline.
Because most celebrities' audiences are the world at large, but Tiger's paymasters were golfers.
ReplyDeleteTiger took the hit because we believed that not only was he one of the all-time greatest golfers, but that he was a perfect human being, too. And when it turned out he wasn't a perfect human being (that, in fact, he was rather a cad), we felt betrayed and we turned on him.
ReplyDelete(Of course, Tiger is not exactly blameless, since he was one of the main people loudly pushing the image of himself as a fairy-tale family man.)
For the same reason, the reaction to Mark McGwire taking steroids was so swift and vicious because he had been held out as some kind of baseball savior. Sammy Sosa was only his sidekick in that drama, so we didn't care that much about his steroid use. And everyone already hated A-Rod, so his steroid use also didn't generate the same kind of backlash.
I think Lindsey Lohan could do it if she really got sober. There's been no evidence of that yet, but if she did, and then had the same dedication to work that Downey has had since he came back, I think she could have a comeback. I would be rooting for her, if that were the case.
ReplyDeleteI think that Tiger took such a hit for a few different reasons (quantity, the classless details, etc.), but the really big two are (1) disconnect between squeaky clean, family-man image that he had nurtured and the underlying truth, and (2) the fact that the events actually affected the quality of the golfing.
ReplyDeleteI was going to say something very similar (and even thought of Daly as the counter-example as well). I'd add that not only was his image squeaky-clean, but he sort of exuded an aura of "I'm a better person than you." His father's rhetoric about how special he was and how he was going to change the world like Ghandi or King, the Nike-created image of the hyper-disciplined automaton who practiced relentlessly every day, even in downpours, and avoided all temptations and distractions, the effusive commentary of people like Jim Nantz, the way Tiger held himself apart from everyone else and guarded his privacy so jealously, the picture-perfect wife, etc., etc. Not all of it was his doing, but he had an image that made people just revel in his downfall and say, "wow, not only is Tiger not pefect, but he's a way bigger screw-up than I could ever be if I tried."
ReplyDeleteHuh. I tend to loathe all the cheaters equally, so ranking the vitriol towards various members of that club seems foreign to me. And I'm including you, Manny. Freaking failure.
ReplyDeleteAthletes, as opposed to actors, are looked at as 'role models' these days. Thats a big part of the backlash when they fall from grace. You can't sell little Johnny on "practice makes perfect" when the idol is sleeping around behind his wife's back.
ReplyDeleteAnother part of the problem may be how the situation is handled at the time. Take a look at some of examples being discussed:
Tiger: portrayed the 'perfect family man', turned out to be a 'sexual addict'.
compare that to say, Jeter: never married, is known to 'associate' with many different women, still a hero to many.
Or McGwire claiming to have never used steroids, and A-rod owning it and apologizing for it.
I think people have a harder time separating the actor from their roles sometimes, which makes any wrong-doings easier to forget. If Daniel Craig suddenly had 3 different baby-mommas I'm not going to boycott the next Bond film.
And lastly, we get bombarded with all sorts of media hype over the smallest incident that in this day and age it's easier to filter out most of it. A big scandal in today's world is page 6 after a few days/weeks.
Meg Ryan's problem was a pretty clear-cut case of Monster Face.
ReplyDeleteTiger Woods is a Black man who is the est at a sport that was previously reserved for White men only. So there was always underlying hate and resentment towards him. So his scandal which involved him havng sex with numberous White women while cheating on his sacred White wife are cardinal sins in a sociaety that still sees the Black man as a sexual predator and the White woman as the bastion of all thats pure and holy.
ReplyDeleteIf nny other successful White golfer on the tour had the same scandal happen to them, it would not have gotten hald of the attention.
Yeah. What she said. This was a doesn't fit must acquit moment in American Journalism. White women. White woman. Golfers are white. Golfballs are white. Tiger's balls are off-white. This was democratized racism, people want what they want so newsmedia gives it to them even when they want it because of the racial scandal that they cannot quite put their finger on what they hate about him and why they revel in his fall from Grace and a bunch of other old-fashioned names. Since this blog is apolitical, and I'm still supposed to be a Republican, I won't say anything more than don't we see this all the time in another context and shouldn't we all be used to seeing men who occupy positions normally reserved for white men being hounded for silly reasons that would never surface if the candidate was white. My birth certificate says Bryn Mawr Pennsylvania which is in the United States. Nobody has ever questioned my citizenship. I attended Ardmore Methodist Church for 20 years and nobody has ever suggested I'm not a Methodist (even though I'm not sure that I am).
ReplyDeleteAnd, are we sure that Anti-Semitism alone without the hatred of blacks too, and his bullying of his new wife that he left the old wife for after getting permission from his emissary to God -- His father (Trust your feelings Mel, I am your Father) -- would have killed William Wallace's career. This dude made a lot of really good movies, and, he was really good in a lot of really bad movies -- See Ransom. I love it when he's in (movie) love with Rene Russo, or totally smoking hot scottish girls (or at least actresses who look like totally hot scottish girls). I love me some Mel Gibson movies. Don't like him. Feel guilty watching his movies. But love them all the same. Would give up a steak dinner to watch Braveheart beginning to end uninterrupted on the big screen again.
ReplyDeleteSeriously. I think it would be ridiculous to discount the importance of race in this conversation.
ReplyDeleteSeems like misogyny wasn't enough. (It never is.)
ReplyDeleteAs I recall, Dennis Quaid was pretty well-known for being unfaithful, and long before Meg Ryan opened up about it. (If you believe magazine gossip, anyhow.)
ReplyDeleteI suppose it's possible that her affair caused her career to tank, but I think her funky plastic surgery has more to do with it.
/what Isaac said. RIP Ted Knight. Judge Smails Lives.
ReplyDeleteHas Jennifer Aniston really centered her celebrity on victimhood? As far as I can remember, she did one magazine cover story several years ago in which she discussed the end of her marriage in detail, and that's it. It's not as though she can help it if a bunch of supermarket periodicals continue putting the alleged love triangle on their covers several years after the marriage dissolved.
ReplyDeleteI am ashamed to admit this but there are certain gossip websites which i visit which allege Jennifer Aniston's management team stage manage shots of her being single or being involved with a series of bachelors to counter publicity around Pitt-Jolie. I think if we could be bothered to look further into the Aniston magazine covers they're always well timed around either movies that she is releasing or movies that either Pitt or Jolie are releasing.
ReplyDeleteThe argument that paps are difficult to avoid doesn't fly with me as you can avoid them if you don't want to. See Roberts, Winslet, Baron Cohen and Blanchett.
who the hell is billy crudup?
ReplyDeleteI love this blog. And the people who respnd to it. Just saying. This is a great conversation.
ReplyDeleteWhat killed Eddie Fisher's career wasn't adultery, it was addiction to methamphetamines and to women who were professionally driven. And also his shocking lack of gallantry.
ReplyDeleteMel Gibson is doing a pretty good job of committing staricide: DUIs, alleged wife abuse, etc etc
Just wanted to put in a quick plug for Carrie Fisher's book <span>Wishful Drinking</span>. It's a very quick read, and highly entertaining. She is an incredibly funny individual with an insane past. Plus, the parts about George Lucas are very funny (like the part about Lucas convincing her that no one wore underwear in space, which is why she was bra-less for New Hope).
ReplyDeleteHer one-woman show of Wishful Drinking was damn funny. I hope she tours in it or something.
ReplyDeleteGood news Carrie is planning to tour starting in Australia late in October (though that may be delayed due to her father's death) and then 2011 for the US
ReplyDelete